Killing the marketroids would only treat the symptom.

[sistawendy]

Nibs was explaining to me the other day that Coke Zero is a diet cola that's being marketed toward men. I'm astounded that something like this exists.

Now hear this:
Diet Coke is not girly.
Beer is not butch. (Can I get confirmation from heyoka & ouranophobe over in the UK?)
They're beverages, for crying out loud. You don't have to be a tranny to see the idiocy of this, do you?

Comments

[randomdreams.livejournal.com]

To *you*, it's just a beverage. But to people who are trying to project an image but don't have much to base that upon save what they see on TV, type of diet pop is as good as any, and cheaper than buying a Hummer. Around here, you make a definite statement if you're drinking Hamms as opposed to PBR, and a completely different one yet if you're a Fat Tire kind of person. It's silly, but not fundamentally different than judging people based on which Italian designer they buy their suits/dresses from, is it?

[sistawendy.livejournal.com]

Anyone who puts this much thought into how what they drink makes them look needs their priorities rearranged, by blunt trauma if necessary.

(What statement does Hamms make, anyway?)

And you can have my Italian boots when you pull them of my cold, dead legs. They're purty. And comfier than they have any right to be. I forget who made them, but I'll find out if I ever have the $ for another pair.

[randomdreams.livejournal.com]

Mind you, I'm writing this all from the standpoint of someone who doesn't drink.
Hamms says I'm midwest and proud of it.
pbr says I'm hipster and ironic.
fat tire says I'm hipster and outdoorsy.
coors says I was in a frat.

[generalchaos.livejournal.com]

can we get more beer statements?
What does Guiness say?
How about Sam Adams?
etc

[ximinez]

No, it's not girly - it's crap. :)

[darkmane.livejournal.com]

Given that the two guys I most remember drinking Diet Coke were the two most interested in thier machoness, I would never think of diet any thing as feminine.... except TAB... TAB was for women... and tasted disgusting.

[sistawendy.livejournal.com]

That's right, the ads for TAB were aimed squarely at women, and I vividly recall how nasty it was.

[neuro42.livejournal.com]

gender is a social construct zog zog zog

[randomdreams.livejournal.com]

Or more to the point for this conversation, gender is a marketing opportunity.

[neuro42.livejournal.com]

Marketing is a social construct.

[randomdreams.livejournal.com]

... but a very profitable one.

[sistawendy.livejournal.com]

Yeah, yeah, as if I didn't see that coming. It's time for a new superhero (or superheroine): the Deconstructionist!

I've always considered myself a conscientious objector in any war against gender roles, but Coke Zero took a small step toward changing that.

[savannarama.livejournal.com]

I was walking down the aisle at Safeway yesterday evening and was startled to see (even having read this post) the faces of raging, roaring dudes on a Coke Zero 12-pack, alerting insecure male consumers to the diet soda's alleged Male Cred.

It was like..."Ooookay. Calm down."

Hahaha! Sad.

[beaq.livejournal.com]

I thought Coke Zero lacked caffeine. But I guess not. That would be weird, if it's marketed at men and Diet Coke is not. Is there any ... difference between the two?

I miss my Diet Cherry Coke. FWIW.

[savannarama.livejournal.com]

It still exists, but it's difficult to find.

and a white wine for the lady.

[heyokish.livejournal.com]

Without getting into the differences of class and generation, it's still wildly complicated. These are not just drinks. You are getting into the pub, and the pub is Serious.

The difference between Diet Coke and Coke Zero? They only try to market one of these drinks with James Bond. Outside of geekville, I believe that Diet Coke is seen as a purely girly drink, as Real Men do not care about calories in their drinks. And do not ever drink diet soft drinks in the pub. If you are going booze free, then at least revel in calories.

Beer is not butch. But. It's more complicated. Some beer is distinctly un-butch. If manliness is in even slightly in question, drink absolutely regular bitter, no messing, no fancy names, no nuffing. Or bog standard lager. Steer very, very clear of premium beers, interesting furrin beers, things with puns in their names, or those piss poor excuses for beer that get advertised as all-american.

Conversely, females of the species do get to drink the fancy and the furrin beers quite merrily, and many are "allowed" to drink the beardy real ales (though this will seriously confuse certain very traditional males) but girly-girls would never drink real beer, and would think twice about drinking *any* beer. This is not coyness about drinking, as they may well out drink the males, but they are drinking different things.

Yes, it's all ridiculous. But you asked.

Re: and a white wine for the lady.

[sistawendy.livejournal.com]

Ridiculous and tragic. It makes me want to buy a Diet Coke for a Hell's Angel, which might get me hospitalized.

Re: and a white wine for the lady.

[heyokish.livejournal.com]

oh, that would be fine. The nervous sticking to "rules" tends to apply only where there is fear of doubt. (And it's not even necessarily related to gender, sexuality, or whatever, but the risk of being accused of being a complete wanker with ideas above/without their station/norm/whatever the hell is is that sets the limits for what's acceptable.)

See the old Babycham ads for a good play on this, where the ideas of gender-appropriate drinks is so ingrained that it's assumed to be hilarious when musclebound bloke orders the girliest drink available (and then everyone else in the place rushes to order the same, as they have been given "permission" to break the rules.)

Re: and a white wine for the lady.

[heyokish.livejournal.com]

in other words, no one will accuse said HA of being a big girly-girl, even if drinking a pink cocktail with umbrellas and fruits and little parrots.